Well, my two week journey into the land of Apple was brought to an abrupt end yesterday, after my brand new iMac stopped doing the one thing Macs are always supposed to do: work. I had spent the last two weeks familiarizing myself with OS X and getting the new machine tuned to my liking. I had located all the Mac equivalents to PC applications I used on a regular basis, and even found a few new ones. I had successfully imported my e-mail from an Outlook backup, transferred over my iTunes library and brought my DVD Profiler collection into Delicious Library. I had installed Windows XP using Boot Camp and successfully ran a number of PC games without issue. I was even starting to get used the close buttons being in the top left corner instead of the top right. And then the damn thing just gave out on me.
For what it’s worth, I’m pretty sure it was a software issue and not a hardware thing. Here’s what happened: one day, while surfing the web in Firefox, the screen slowly dimmed from top to bottom and a message came up on the screen saying that the computer had to be restarted. Then after restarting, nothing happened, the computer was apparently dead. After unplugging it and leaving it for 10 or 15 minutes, the computer would start up again, only to have the same message come up shortly thereafter. After doing some research, I found out that I was experiencing a “kernel panic“, which is basically the Mac version of a Windows blue screen of death. Apparently kernel panics are almost never supposed to happen on a Mac; I read forum posts from people saying they had never seen one in years of using a Mac. And yet, here I was, after my first two weeks, consistently seeing one happen every 5 minutes.
I did some more reading and came up with a theory that the problem was being caused by a Logitech mouse driver. So I ripped that software out and plugged in a different mouse. The system ran smoothly for a couple hours afterwards and it seemed like the issue was gone. But then the next morning, the computer had frozen up again and simply would not boot no matter what I did.
My first instinct as a PC guy is to think it could be a virus, but I’m told there is no such thing as a Mac virus.
I suppose it could have just been bad RAM, but then why did it take two weeks to act up? The panic log seemed to indicate a memory paging error, but I also did a Mac extended hardware scan and it didn’t find any problems.
The guy at the Future Shop said it sounded like a faulty hard drive, but I don’t really buy that.
In the end, my options were either (a) exchange it for a brand new iMac and start all over again, (b) send it away to Apple and wait 2 or 3 weeks to see if they could fix it without losing my data, or (c) get my money back. Seeing as it was the last day for option (c), I decided I didn’t want to risk either of the other two options. As painful as it was, I had to part with my new Mac and accept the fact that it just wasn’t meant to be.
I’m not going to say that Macs suck and I’ll never try one again, but it’s pretty hard not to be put off by the whole ordeal. If it was a hardware thing, then it’s possible that I simply got a lemon. If it was a software issue, it could very well have been my own fault for installing some crappy shareware program or old system utility that borked the whole thing. But unless I could identify the culprit, how was I know to know it wouldn’t happen again? I really didn’t like the idea of an OS that couldn’t handle a little bit of fiddling behind the scenes, and I didn’t like the fact that once something messed it up, you had no recourse other than to reformat the entire thing. At least with a PC you can usually boot to DOS and try to recover some data or re-install Windows without losing your files.
So I guess this means my days as a Mac convert are over. Here is my short list of pros and cons that I took away from my brief stint as a Mac user:
The Good
- Compact and quiet: The iMac ran super quiet and made for less desktop clutter since the CPU is inside the monitor.
- Increased Compatibility: With an Intel processor I was able to run both Windows and Mac software quite easily using Apple’s own free Boot Camp software.
- OS X Features: There are some pretty cool features in Mac OS X… things like expose, widgets, and spotlight made my life easier. I think Windows Vista has since ripped off some of this stuff though.
- Peripherals: It came with a built-in web cam, firewire ports and a bunch of other things out of the box that my PC didn’t have.
- Enhanced Podcast Tool: Macs have the ability to make enhanced podcasts with chapter stops and pictures, but the software doesn’t exist for Windows yet.
- Delicious Library: Jim from fjetsam tipped me off on this Mac-only media cataloging program and it is amazing… movies, music, games and books all in one, and the interface is so much better than DVD Profiler.
The Bad
- Mouse Tracking: This may sound like a stupid complaint but I seriously could not get used to the mouse movement on a Mac. Despite an array of utilities aimed at fixing the problem (MouseFix, USB Overdrive, MouseZoom), I wasn’t happy with any of them.
- Home/End Key Behaviour: By default the Home and End keys do not move to the beginning and end of lines on a Mac. You can customize this in your key bindings and hack it in for certain programs, but it’s still not a system wide thing.
- GarageBand Sucks: And Adobe Audition is not currently available for the Mac.
- Limited Troubleshooting Ability: If your system dies, whether it’s a software or hardware issue, there’s not much you can do other than send it away to Apple and get them to repair it.
I guess I’ll be spending next week checking out PC system packages. Sigh. Dude, maybe I should just get a Dell.
Saying that you “had no recourse” is simply wrong. As an experienced PC user with x years of experience you know how to deal with unexpected situations, but as a new Mac user you don’t. The switch can be frustrating because you must relearn how to deal with these situations.
Single-User Mode can be used for troubleshooting, for instance you can check the volume with the fsck command, etc. And you can easily re-install OS X from the DVD without losing your files with the “Archive and Install” option, it can also import the settings.
Kernel panics are almost never supposed to happen on a Mac (can’t remember the last one), but this is a computer, not some magical item. Giving up at the first hurdle is a bit of a pity, but I understand that running into problems can be stressful.
It’s a shame that you got a bad machine/software. These things happen even on Macs. Of the 20+ new Macs I’ve purchased over the years, one had fatal hardware problems out of the box. When my new Mac went south, I contacted AppleCare and they walked me through various troubleshooting options until we determined it was a hardware problem that only they could fix. They FedExed me a box, fixed the problem, and returned the machine to me within four days. YMMV, but did you call Apple to see if your Option B would really take two or three weeks?
“Limited Troubleshooting Ability: If your system dies, whether it’s a software or hardware issue, there’s not much you can do other than send it away to Apple and get them to repair it.” Well, for the kind of fatal hardware issue you’re dealing with, that’s pretty much true for any machine. But day-to-day maintenance and troubleshooting are easily learned with time/experience.
If it’s not too late, try working with AppleCare to see if they can resolve your machine’s problems within a reasonable time frame.
I hate to have these comments go three for three on you, but it really is a shame you didn’t try for another machine. Would they not have extended your in-store for another 14 days because you had to swap it for a new machine?
In your defense though, I’ve been the say way with certain things. I picked up a Zen Vision M a few months back and had nothing but problems. I swapped it twice at Best Buy within my 30 days, and eventually just said “fuck it” and took my money back. Funny enough, I used that $300 towards my Mac.
It sucks that you didn’t feel like you could stick it out, but coming from the place of a PC user that was on the fence about trying a Mac out to begin with, I can see why you did what you did.
So what type of PC are you looking at picking up in its place?
The “Archive and Install” option was not available to me from what I remember, it said that the OS on the machine was newer than the version on the CD so it would only let me re-install from scratch.
I do feel like I gave up a little too early on it, but in the end there just wasn’t enough perceived gain from it for me to want to push through all the headaches. And yes, it may have been better to deal directly with Apple since none of the people on hand at Future Shop actually knew anything about Macs.
Jim, I think they would have given me another 14 days with a new machine but honestly I just didn’t want to have to go through the whole setup process all over again.
Not sure what I’ll pick up next, I have no idea what is available out there for PCs anymore.
It sounds like a PC guy over-tinkering with his Mac syndrome, ala Windows-land style. I have a few ‘friends’ who did the very same things when the first started with OS X. But i guess we’ll never know as the online community didn’t have a chance to see what really happened.
So congrats on getting all those hits on your page!
You had a fourth solution. Exchange the iMac for a new one, the easiest option, and place the back-up you made on your new computer. It goes without saying you made a back-up of your iMac right away, right? An experienced user does this, just like you did….right? Actually, listening to a guy from Future Shop is not the thing to do, call Apple. We will never know if it was you, the hard drive or what; as you never looked fully into the situation. A poor article, not fully explored by you. Save some blog space for your next article on how the iMac replacement PC had no problems, no issues, no viruses, no nothing. Also, please blog about how wonderful the new PC is in your experience. Really, we need the opinion of an experienced user.
I guess you were a few months to early for Time Machine. I’m suprised you didn’t use the backup utility or .mac backup utility and you could have always done a quick archive with disk utility. But what’s stranger yet is why you just didn’t set up an appointment and bring your imac in to the genius bar to figure out what was the root cause. At least you tried it out for a few days, it’s the millions the bash the mac that have never touched one or who’s last experience with one was 10 years ago that irks me.
I can’t remember a situation where “Archive and Install” was not an option and pretty much an easy “cure all” if it is a serious software issue that you can’t find a cause for. The system on the computer is nearly always newer than the system on the disc that came in the box. The only time I think this would happen is if you were using a disc from a whole generation prior. For example, you are running 10.4 and try to Archive and Install from a 10.3 disc. Archive and Install is usually a last resort as your dealing with the system but it’s normally easy and very painless. You literally have a fresh system with pretty much everything untouched except the time and some other minor thing like that.
This is typical of most PC users whom I have introduced to the Mac. I usually just say - go to an Apple Store and try it. The success rate in switch is very clear - typical geek/get-in-the-guts/I-dont-have-time-for-this-shit/it-better-work-the-first-time/somewhat of a pessimist type of person almost always hates the Mac after using a PC - even a small quirk is magnified and god forbid if a Mac should crash - its usually my fault for telling them about a Mac.
Nest-up, the not-so-geek/I’m-adaptable/creative/family-person/let-me-try-it-again/it-cant-be-that-bad/terribly-optimist/hey-thats-cool type of person I’ve introduced it to ALWAYS have stuck to the Mac even if they’ve had problems with it - my first Mac convert was to the old iMac Blue (the-all-in-ones) and believe it or not 6 years later they are still using it and dont want to change - not even to the Mac OS X!! So tough luck with your Mac problem - but its not the end of the world. I’m sure you would also return a new BMW/Mercedes if it gave you problems in the first 10 days and get a Ford or a Chevy - after all they are supposed to be more reliable! Good story….
It was most likely a bad motherboard or a bad stick of memory.
But I don’t see why you wouldn’t buy another Mac if you are still interested. After all, you can use Boot Camp to run Windows and just pretend it is a Windows machine. Then you can learn to use the Mac if you like at your own pace.
Once again, a PC user put off by an Apple’s lack of paritiy to their already fucked up world of computing. Just imagine if this blog entry was the other way around.. a Mac user converting to PCs. He’d dump it the first day, because two weeks with it would lead to suicide!
If you weren’t so overly agressive and impatient (yes, you fucked up your machine and didn’t figure out how to really fix it) in another week you might have learned things like single-user mode and target disk mode, or at the very least archive and install.
Knock your self out, go back to your Dell box. Us Mac folk will continue to benefit with the things that are flat-out better…
Just read your “Bad.” Mouse tracking? It’s the same on both PC and Mac. The speed of the tracking can be adjusted in System Preferences but beyond that how are they any different?
And the “Limited Troubleshooting Ability” is just wrong. I think it’s more like “users limited troubleshooting knowledge.” i’ve been using Macs for seven years, few different models, and I’ve only needed to give one to Apple for troubleshooting when the hard drive failed on my Powerbook which they replaced and had back to me in 2 days.
At least you gave it a shot… too bad on the luck. Karma maybe?
Rough luck. It was probably a dodgy RAM stick or some other hardware. But if you were screwing around with key bindings, you were diving very deep into the system and you may have done the damage yourself.
The Mac community sounds pretty fucking mean. I don’t think I want to be part of that.
I haven’t read anything mean here. Yours is the only one that sounds mean so far.
Well maybe one.
Boot Camp is Beta software and likely the cause of the issues.
With a trip to the Genius Bar you could have learned how to Install OS X on an external firewire hard drive, booted from it and either repaired your volume and/or retreived your data and re installing OS X.
“We” Mac users are not a community. We are not a cult. We are individual home computer users like anyone else. Now back to the topic. I am truly sorry that your first experience resulted in a defective unit. Those kernel panics are almost always faulty ram and in many cases software got corrupt. This happens on any computer. My iPod has frozen a few times, software gets corrupted or mis-managed by memory. Archive and Install as mentioned earlier should have worked, but if not then oh well. You mentioned so many great features about the iMac that you liked and that in itself would have been enough for me to simply exchange the machine or get my money back and buy directly from Apple.
Everyone gets a lemon in their life but it’s a bit drastic just to drop the whole platform and not get a second one. Food is not cooked right at the restaurant people simple it send it back for another plate. They don’t just get up and leave the restaurant.
The issue is your time will be inconvenienced either way. Since you don’t want the Mac anymore now you have to spend time looking at PC offerings and you will find yourself comparing the iMac’s features with what’s available on PC. You will find yourself disappointed with the lack of multi-OS operability, the Podcasting features and everything else you like.
Your welcome to do whichever works best for you rather Mac or PC, remember we are not a community so it won’t offend us which platform you choose.
Just don’t look at Apple as this “perfect” company with beautiful “perfect” products. They mass produce like Dell, Sony and HP.
Incidentally, my first HP and Compac PC’s were my last. They both had multiple issues but I kept them for 3 years and then I left after being fed up with Windows.
You have to remember why you decided to buy a Mac?
Wow, I guess I should have expected a crazy response like this when writing something slightly critical of the Mac.
Let me first say that I absolutely accept some of the responsibility for the problem and I probably should have done more research to try and fix it. I’m sure if this had happened a few months in, as opposed to a few weeks in, I would have stuck around since I would have been fully invested in the Mac and had no other choice. But from where I sat, I still had the chance to go back to something that was familiar and safe, and I clung to it for all I was worth.
I do think I’m a pretty resourceful guy when it comes to fixing computers, but I guess I’m used to doing it yourself as opposed to calling Apple tech support or something like that. But the bottom line is that when I brought it back the computer wouldn’t even boot up so there’s not much you can do at that point.
The point of my post here, is not “Hey I tried Macs and it sucked, PCs rule”. My point is simply that there are pros and cons to both sides, and that Macs aren’t as bulletproof as some would lead you to believe. I liked the Mac, but in the end the benefits simply didn’t outweigh the cost in my particular situation.
Re: The mouse tracking. There is a known difference between the mouse acceleration in OS X and Windows XP. There are plenty of articles out there on the web about it. I’m not saying the Mac mouse tracking is wrong, it’s just not what I’m used to, and since I use a PC every day at work it’s not so easy to adapt to it.
And yes Henrik, you’re right the Mac community is pretty insane. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled across an article where a guy basically declared that when he meets someone smart, he assumes they use a Mac. Because you know, if you’re smart, you obviously wouldn’t use a PC! How arrogant and delusional must you be to seriously believe that?
I have a friend who constantly complained about her Windows machine and observed me using a Mac. She finally dumped her Dell for an iMac and was instantly and permanently disgruntled with Apple. Her iMac just didn’t work in the same way as her Dell did. Finally, after three months and countless problems, she sold her iMac to me and bought a new Dell. A month later she asked me if I was having the same problems she experienced. “No,” I told her, “this machine works perfectly. Your problems were probably user error.” In the interim, she’d had to send the Dell back once, and was again experiencing the same problems on her Windows machine as she had originally before switching to a Mac. Change doesn’t come easily, and learning can take time. AND some people are just more comfortable using a PC. So, go use a PC, you’ll be happier.
I’m a pretty resourceful guy as well. When I first bought a Mac it was my first computer and I didn’t know a single person that used one but I got one anyway because I liked it. So I learned, I called Applecare, found a Mac Computer User Group, etc.
If I were to buy a Windows PC I can guarantee I wouldn’t be able to troubleshoot it myself and I’d be calling tech support, talking to friends, posting on forums, etc. so I don’t see why it’d be any different.
Only one guy has posted anything here remotely “crazy.” Back to the mouse tracking. Shrug. I don’t know I use a PC at work and have been on many friends PC’s. They seem the same to me. But I’m not an audiophile and can’t tell the difference when someone complains about the sound of something either.
Well go back to your wonderful world of Windows or whatever where hard drives, mothereboards, etc. never die and mice track wonderfully. Perfection will never end there. Enjoy and don’t come back.
Oh and when you couldn’t start the machine you can just start from the OS X Install Disc to troubleshoot by holding down the C key at startup.
Or even put the problem computer into Target Disk Mode which would probably still work even if the system is hosed and another Mac would treat it as an external drive and you can troubleshoot that way. Of course, the latter choice requires another Mac but the first one doesn’t.
When people say, “It just works,” they don’t mean you are guaranteed no problems. Any computer can have problems, because they are composed of mass-produced parts. The thing is, Apple takes care of problems with alacrity. You had the option to get your machine repaired or swapped for a new one. It’s too bad you got a lemon, but you just gave up. That is not Apple’s fault.
Sucks about the mac, as for the Delicious Library, there is a rip off version available on the PC. Its called Media Man.
http://www.imediaman.com/home.html
Oh and you could also start from the Hardware Test CD that came in the box even if the system is hosed which will, as the name implies, test the hardware and tell you if a piece is faulty. I had that happen once when 3rd party RAM I bought was a problem. I ran the Hardware Test; it said stick so-and-so is faulty. I took it out and all was good. Bought a different one and went on my way.
See there are lots of troubleshooting options but I don’t think anyone including yourself can expect a new user to know to know these things in 2 weeks.
Ok I’m done, I think. Gotta go weed whip. As said at least you tried it out and it’s too bad something went wrong so soon. It’s certainly not the norm as I don’t think it would be on the PC side either.
Hey Anthony, I was able to boot to the OS X install CD a couple of times, and I ran the various check utilities, I also did a hardware check but it didn’t identify any problems. My next option was to just re-install from scratch but I didn’t want to do that. Didn’t know about this Target Disk Mode thing though.
James: Thanks for the heads up on MediaMan, I’ve heard of it and I’m definitely going to check it out.
Sean, I mentioned earlier that Mac users are not part of any community or are we part of a cult. There is good reason that Mac users are so dedicated to the platform. Hey, it’s just a damn computer, why do we love it so much, there’s always reason.
After your reply about “crazy” comments after my post I am offended by the comment you left about the arrogant person expecting a smart person to be a Mac user. I feel I wrote fair comments about your article and I didn’t bash your decision to stay with Windows as it doesn’t change my life. Nobody here said that you were trying to say, “Macs Suck” “PC’s rule”. If your article was about that nobody would reply to you as nice and fair as most people here have.
You make it personal when you say rude things about other people that use Macs as if we are all like that. As far as a community? What do you call the 95% of the PC world? This 95% verbally reminds Mac users everyday that Windows is superior, Windows is for gaming and Macs are not. Windows is for business and Macs are not. Windows is real computer and Macs are not. These are people that have never even touched a Mac.
In My opinion that’s a community or a cult. No matter how challenging Windows is people still stay with and swear by it. Maybe you should do that too.
Hey Sean, well your next option and probably the one to fix your problem barring a physical issue was the Archive and Install from the startup disc. I know you mentioned it said it wouldn’t allow that for some reason, but for the life of me I can’t figure out why it would say that, unless, like I said, the disc was a prior generation which would, of course, make no sense either. I don’t know. Guess it wasn’t meant to be.
In my time of using OS X which is since its inception I’ve probably had half a dozen kernel panics. The last one probably being that Memory stick which was years ago. Only once, the faulty Powerbook hard drive, did it require a trip to Apple because I could not find the cause and fix the problem myself. I’m a self taught Intermediate user.
The reason you are probably getting more comments that you’re used to is because your blog is showing up on Macsurfer and probably other Mac news gathering sites and the title is just not typical so it peaks a Mac users interest wondering “Why would he be saying that?”
As someone who works in IT and administers a school with over 500 Macs I can say this with confidence: You had a hardware problem.
It’s a UNIX. Kernel panics are hardware or bad kernel extensions. Bad kernel extensions are very rare. More rare than bad RAM.
Also, I’ve certainly experienced machines with problems that Apple Hardware Test said were OK. One simple example is two RAM modules of differing size. They may both check out OK but can still lead to kernel panics. This is resolved by replacing the RAM with a pair of memory modules of identical spec.
I understand your frustration. But the reason it seemed so hard to troubleshoot this problem is that it wasn’t resolveable by you. It was almost certainly hardware.
What I don’t understand is your hands in the air about so-called “crazy” responses. Who cares what you use but give the other commenters credit. By and large they were respectful and gave you good advice. Even if it wasn’t always what you wanted to hear.
Sorry. RAM of differing spec was what I meant — not size. One of CL2, one of CL3. That sort of thing…
I have had the same experiences of unreliability with my PC’s [except for the ones that I have built myself] as well as my friends’ PC’s. My three Macs have been rock stable for 12 years. You probably had bad RAM. My experience with PC’s is extensive, but generally found that apps and hardware are more easily and reliably installed on a Mac. I still need a PC for apps for work that have not been written for Macs. The constant upkeep of protective software for the PC’s are time consuming, but no worries on a Mac. But my question to you is why switch? If you are happy with your PC, then life is good. The basic everyday user does the same thing on a PC as they do on a Mac, but have added security on a Mac. However, before switching, I would make darn certain that all of the software that I need for my non-basic work is available in some form. Also, if you have decent hardware, wait until you really need to upgrade. Then buy a Mac Pro tower, not some girly iMac.
Hey guys, when I said the post was getting a “crazy response”, I just meant that I was getting a large number of comments. I didn’t mean it a condescending way at all.
It is a shame that you had this problem. I have had six Macs at home, three at the office and bought one for my son. We had problems with inept email providers and a third party card that was defective. I am not a power user and never tried to stretch the limits of the Mac. Anytime, anything goes wrong with a Mac, the first question you ask is, What is the last thing I did to the Mac? That is usually the source of the problem (or has been in my experience and others).
Archive and Install will ALWAYS work. You probably were clicking around and didn’t give the installer enough time to update the window or you just didn’t see it change. Another good tip is to always set up a new user that you can log into just to verify the issue is not user related. Anyway, hey, I’m in the same boat with Windows. I have a had to use a Windows notebook for work the last three years and while I am MUCH better at XP than I used to be there are many times things I think should work don’t etc. old habits are hard to break and unfortunately don’t often transfer well between OS’s. Good try though!
Ha, soo lame. Good bait gone bad on you too.
Sorry you didn’t get enough “insane” responses to get your hard on.
Well, who cares about your “give up at the first sign of trouble attitude”? All these nice people that’s who. Offering good advice, friendly suggestions, consolations. Narry a Mac snob in the bunch. But you didn’t expect that. Beautimuss, but not for you dude. You must return to the familiar,
Then GO!
Still tried to bait them with the totally wrong “you had no recourse other than to reformat the entire thing”. Either you knew it was wrong and didn’t care, or you just didn’t care.
If it didn’t look like so much flame bait,
“perceived benefits, headaches, benefits simply didn’t outweigh the cost”
And my favorite “Henrik, you’re right the Mac community is pretty insane.” after he commented “The Mac community sounds pretty fucking mean. I don’t think I want to be part of that.” Lame on!
I would think you just want sympathy for your hard luck story.
You got mine, for your sad excuse of objectivity.
Sure brought in some hits tho. Thats what really matters.
Man, that was fun, i can see why people do this.
Thanks for the inspiration!
…
talk amongst yourselves. heres a subject.
how genuine do you have to appear to get a dig at Macs,
while justifying Windows as somehow better.
discuss
I don’t want to say that he didn’t see that message regarding the Archive and Install because I have seen that message before but it was a long time ago during 10.1 or 10.2. I think 10.1 probably. But yeah if its 10.3 or 10.4 it should always work as far as I know. I know for a fact you can even do an Archive and Install of 10.4 if your current machine is running 10.3. I just did that for someone the other day. The lady had an old iMac that didn’t have a DVD drive. I used my laptop as the DVD drive, started her computer in Target Disk Mode, did an Archive and Install on her machine and upgraded her system while leaving all her stuff and her settings intact. I’m guessing you would get that message if you tried to backwards in the OS though.
Archive & Install wasn’t there? Nonsense.
The Mac has always had superior tracking, I can actually draw with one in photoshop. Dell systems usually ship with a cheap mouse with a low dpi. Go to system preferences & change the tracking to your liking.
Harwdware problem? You’re computer was still under warranty. Could have got it fixed or insisted on a new one. You would have recieved it. The warranty is for 1 year, not 2 weeks. Not trying is nobodys fault but yours. Good luck to you. I here Vista is rock solid! Face it you didn’t know what you were doing…you didn’t want to ask for help & you blame Apple for that. Nothings perfect…grow up. There were reasonable solutions offered to you. You chose not to take them.
And now for something completely different:
http://www.qaqna.com/2007/05/apple_gets_clos.html
Just as a data point, my mac laptop was up 22 days of heavy daily use. I rebooted only because there was Security Update. Sounds like a hardware problem to me. That is the only time I have seen a kernel panic on the numerous macs I have had since OS X came out.
Exchange it for the new iMac — why not? And next time, do it the Mac way. Any Mac user in the know does not install 3rd party drivers for any devices unless they absolutely have to. Most cameras don’t need them. Mice and keyboards work without them. And if you want extra functionality, there are always independent tools (like USB Driver) that work way more smoothly than anything put out by Logitech, which has a very poor track record when it comes to input drivers for the Mac. Google it and you’ll find tons of complaints of just your nature: crashes, kernel panics, and the like. And that’s another piece of good advice: Google all of your 3rd party devices and read the experiences people are having with the included software before letting it anywhere near your hard drive. You mean Windows people don’t already do this?
Sorry, when I referred to ‘USB Driver’ I meant to type ‘USB Overdrive’. Brain fart.
Sean, I was sympathizing with your story even though except for the hardware problem, the remainder was your fault. But you sincerely owned up to most of that. BUT THEN …
Your comment to Henrik thoroughly EXPOSES who you really are and what your attitude really is. So now I’m way more inclined to agree with Steve that this was all set up as FLAME BAIT. Well, I’d congratulate you on getting the hits but it’s really no big thing to get Mac users to chime in.
RATHER, I’d like to congratulate all the Mac users for their civil and helpful responses despite being tricked and fooled.
Regarding the Archive and Install… I may be thinking of something different. From what I remember there were two options to restore the OS from the OS X Install Disc, one that kept your applications and files intact, the other that wiped them clean. The one that kept the applications and files was greyed out and not available to me.
Maybe I should have been more cautious installing third party utilities that people had posted around the web, but I’ve been working this way for years with my PC and had minimal problems.
As for this post being flame bait, nothing could be farther from the truth. I was just hoping someone out there might benefit from reading my experience as a PC user switching over to a Mac. I am a bit frustrated obviously, but it wasn’t my intention to bash Macs. I do appreciate the comments and suggestions even though it is after the fact. Mac users are passionate, there’s no question. That can be good and it can be bad, but it’s certainly not something you find with PC users.
Sorry, to be passionate about anything in life. Even an OS.
It’s a defense mechanism.
I guess most don’t remember when the beast infected the pc world with it’s predatory, destructive, monopoly system.
What it couldn’t consume, it harrassed, ripped off and sued to protect it’s precious.
The people of Macintish weathered this assualt and survived.
A single digit of machines were born each year, but they were stronger, leaner, cleaner. People leaving the wasteland of the beast wars, saw the Mac and said, it was good.
The beast was not happy. It retreated to it’s lair and built a new weapon. It would create an eye, to see all of its domain, and monitor all its users every program. From this vista, it could send it’s commands to control and collect all it desired from those in it’s servitude.
The lucky ones escape, some to form new oses, trusting no one and everyone.
Some find the Mac… but I digress.
It was fun tho.
Steve again, not the first one, but that was a good one too.
don’t get me started,,
Sean: “The “Archive and Install” option was not available to me from what I remember, it said that the OS on the machine was newer than the version on the CD so it would only let me re-install from scratch.”
I’m running 10.4.9 at the moment but just to be sure I tried to restart from my 2-year old Mac OS X Tiger DVD (version 10.4). After restarting while pressing the “C” key to boot from the DVD I chose my main language, clicked through the software license and was presented with a screen to select the destination disk. I have two internal disks, each with two partitions (OS plus data and a full backup). On my OS partitions there is a yellow icon with an exclamation mark but I can click the “Options…” button to change the installation settings and perform an “Archive and Install,” the radio button is not greyed or anything. A new user is not supposed to know this, though. Tough luck.
“Mac users are passionate, there’s no question.”
Indeed.
“And yes Henrik, you’re right the Mac community is pretty insane.”
Sean, how do you explain that comment? You run across one arrogant guy and tar the whole Mac community by this one guy?
We use PCs during our day jobs and Macs when we want to relax and use the Internet at home. We shoudld be using them in business.
You didn’t buy AppleCare with your Mac?
You didn’t go to an Apple Store to find things out about your machine?
You didn’t look for a local Macintosh User Group to get help?
I just bought a 24″ Mac for my mom. She will be using CrossOver to run her genealogy program (PAF 5) on her Mac without MS Windows.
It is never too late to go back and get a Mac. This time do it right and get AppleCare as part of the purchase and stop thinking like a PC Tech. I did. I am a former Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and do not think of my customers as “Lusers”. Never did.
Mark: It’s definitely a generalization, but that attitude seemed to pervade many of the forums I stumbled across when looking for tips for the Mac. For instance, with the aforementioned mouse tracking issues, PC switchers would ask for advice and many Mac users would quite brutally say, “You’re an idiot, Windows is wrong, just learn the Mac way because it’s right.”
Again, this is only the perspective of a relative outsider looking in. I realize not all Mac users are like this, and I would assume that the elitists must have a good reason for being so dedicated to Macs. As a previous commenter mentioned, perhaps it is a defense mechanism that comes from years of feeling frustrated and outnumbered. Regardless, I think the number of comments on this post is evidence that Mac users have something to prove.
RAM can go bad. I had one of my 512MB sticks go south after a year.
i’m not a computer geek. i’ve used macs. i’ve used pcs. whatever works for me, works. i dont particularly care.
but i’ve had a pc for years, i dont feel any sort of loyalty to it, but as much as i’m not patriotic to pcs, i have a built in hatred of macs, and it really has nothing to do with the mac itself. its because the only obnoxious computer people i know are mac people, the only obnoxious computer commercials i’ve seen are those awful mac ads. just in general between users and the company’s own promotion macs bring up bad feelings in my belly. i’m not saying i would never buy one because of this, but i do completely go out of my way not to talk computers with mac people because i cant stand listening to their smug bullshit.
(and yes, this smug bullshit includes this thread. for all i know you’re all right about the superiority of the mac, however seans post is anything BUT flame bait, he’s not like that at all, but the responses i see here just reek of asshole-ness)
I had mentioned earlier that your blog was picked up by Macsurfer and probably other Mac news gathering sites. So your title was seen by thousands of Mac users for sure I’d think. I have no idea what Macusurfers traffic is like but I’m sure it’s quite high. So, I’m actually kind of surprised that there is only 49 comments and several are from the same people.
But you are right Mac users do have something to prove because it’s frustrating when poeple are scared of the unknown even when you tell them that computer life is good on a Mac.
I, also, have observed this. I don’t personally know anybody who is familiar with both that prefers the PC over the Mac, except for gaming. (Well except you now of course.) The majority of Mac bashing is from people who have never even used one. However, most Mac users are familiar with Windows.
One of my friends is an IT guy for a major university and he’s the President of our Mac Computer User Group. He is an expert on both systems. His personal computers are Macs. Our whole extended family has switched since we were the first to buy one. Even my mom, she’d always complain about how much she hated her PC. I finally convinced her to switch. Months later in an e-mail she says, “Gosh I sooo love my mac.” That’s the experience we expect.
“That’s the experience we expect.”
Once again giving off the vibe that you represent a community. The whole idea of having to join a social movement to make Steve Jobs a rich guy because you bought a computer that looks different than the last one you had is ridiculous to me. The points you make to join you in your experience sounds like the points made by scientology man, and I for one am not drinking the Kool-Aid just yet.
Just tone it down a bit, get used to your Macintoshes. Don’t constantly praise them, don’t go out of your way to debunk whatever issues other people might have with them, and for crying out loud stop acting like Macintosh is for the enlightened nerds out there.
rolleyes
Ok that’s the experience I expect. Sorry for the we.
Oh and for what it’s worth I’m not a nerd. But thanks.
Your tone seems to be the raised one. Chip on your shoulder? The rest of us including the author have been mostly chit-chatting.
“But you are right Mac users do have something to prove because it’s frustrating when poeple are scared of the unknown even when you tell them that computer life is good on a Mac.”
maybe thats what you think you’re trying to prove, but what comes across in this thread to me is a bunch of people who seem insecure enough about their computer that they have to attack one person who doesnt like it. en masse.
its almost like an angry religious thread, where someone who doesnt have the religious Mac experience must be quashed lest a person perhaps agree with him.
you people frighten me.
I mean especially since Sean fully acknowledged what could have gone wrong and how he basically gave up and was scared, and is being treated in so many posts like this detailed and polite post on a personal blog few ever comment on is ‘flame bait’
I mean really, I keep shaking my head over this. I genuinely got mad reading this thread seeing so many posts needlessly bullying. Shame.
I’ve found Macs really do work most of the time, and the kernel panic problems you’ve experienced are pretty unusual if they happen on a regular basis (once a month would be too regular). There’ll be something wrong with the machine for sure. It’s bit hard to tell exactly without running proper tests.
Therein lies a problem - I think I know what you mean by the limited troubleshooting ability. Apple’s test disk isn’t necessarily as thorough as you might hope for, nor are various tools available (for example, a non destructive disk surface scan tool would be nice.) Third party solutions will certainly do better, but they seem a bit out of place on a brand new machine - esp. if you have to pay for them.
The reality is even if you do run tests yourself and subsequently don’t find the problem, you’ll probably have to take the machine to an Apple repair center anyway.
Regarding you giving up after two weeks: well, this isn’t really enough time to appreciate the differences between OS X and Windows. You’d still be getting used to it, and the problems you experienced will have only made you frustrated during this early stage. Pity really. It seems you were scared off before you really got into it. OS X is subtly different to Windows, and it’s one of those things which (honestly) takes a couple of months to really appreciate. Sure, you can get reasonably productive in a few hours, but to really get sucked in takes a bit longer
A suggestion for those in similar situations: go and find yourself a Mac buddy to help you out. i.e. someone who knows the system fairly well and you can call upon to help you when you get stuck or need advice. The first few weeks are the hardest.
I would think that someone who’s used Macs for a while would have noticed the kernel panic as being very unusual and as such, would have recommended you seek repair or replacement.
The other issues you mentioned (mouse tracking, home/end keys etc): yea, lots of switchers seem to comment on these things - they’re just some of the differences between Macs and PCs, and it’s all about what you’re used to. You’re expecting Macs to work like PCs, and they’re not exactly the same.
Congratulations to the Mac community in the face of some wtf provocation. No flames, no flat out insults but above all loads of suggestions for help and possible reasons for Sean’s problems.
Correct me if I’m wrong Sean, but it sounds as though you think that as an experienced pc user, you assumed you should not have to ask for help since ‘hey, I’m not a newbie’ right? You go on to assume that most mac forums are on the rabid side because what?…you read a few negative responses somewhere?
I have a friend - an uber pc geek doing engineering software development - who bought a top spec MacPro to indulge me and my suggestions that he buy a Mac to replace two high spec pc boxes that always needed a lot of attention. He could do that, not being short of funds. His reasons were pretty transparent - he was going to show me just how wrong I was about Macs being useful in the real world of sw development where geeks earn respect and proper money.
In the first month, he rang me constantly, complaining that the Mac wouldn’t do this or that like his pcs would; he railed against iTunes for wanting to organise HIS music(nearly 15,000 cds), his Mighty Mouse was too slow!? and any number of other minor annoyances that OSX was imposing on him. Through sheer patience on my part and him giving ground grudgingly, the calls got less and less. There were some wonderful moments along the way, such as configuring his extensive network from the Mac - he still can’t quite believe that one and how seamlessly colour management works across all apps makes his working life ridiculously easy compared to BM(before mac). He now mocks my basic Mac knowledge and delights in showing me his latest discovery and admits his rigid control freekery was imposed by his previous experience that dictated strict control of his pc machines to limit system damage. Parallels has become his most used work space. His muscular approach has been replaced by a much more relaxed confident one where the OS is allowed to do much more work.
I regard him as a typical new user. Initially interested to see what all the hype is all about, frustrated when it doesn’t do what they are used to doing, then becoming relaxed when they realise that ’struggle’ is not so implicit in Mac userland.
He still winds me up about trivial Mac stuff, but I see the dust settling on his other machines and we get out to the pub more too.
> GarageBand Sucks: And Adobe Audition
> is not currently available for the Mac.
That’s just ridiculous - comparing GarageBand, which is FREE, to a $350 program. Makes as much sense as saying Adobe Audition sucks compared to Apple’s Logic Pro ($1000).
“its almost like an angry religious thread, where someone who doesnt have the religious Mac experience must be quashed lest a person perhaps agree with him.
you people frighten me.”
Oooh we’ve been zombified. Come join us in service of the master. We’ve all lost our minds and are now under the spell of Jobs. We’re all idiots who drank the tainted kool-aid and can’t think for ourselves.
You’re making me laugh. Boo.
“en masse.”
Don’t worry; now that his blog has fallen off the news gathering sites the hits and comments will go way down. Probably nobody will look at this beyond the ones that posted here and probably few of those.
And then we’re off to our next victim! Cause you know that’s what we do. It’s a secret club with a secret website setup by Apple’s secret internet police and we all coordinate to attack. Raaaaaah!
Actually I can’t remember the last time I posted something Mac related but it’s been fun.
Yeah, good times.
As it is you have to remember, you brought it.
With all the negatives constantly thrown about re Macs, people who like them can be expected to show up.
To do anything less is not so satisfying. Get used to it, or get over it. But don’t nobody expect it to end.
Prejudice is bad, m’kay
And relax, everyone knows you have to “want” a Mac to have one.
You don’t want it bad enough.
nuff said
Ugh - this article is so lame. “I suppose it could have just been bad RAM, but then why did it take two weeks to act up?”
Maybe because - like any piece of mass-produced technology, it probably failed while in your possession. It does happen.. I had it happen.. we’ve all had it happen.. mac.. pc.. fridge.. tv.. the list in endless.
Sometimes things go wrong, and I feel that you chose the easy way out just to write such an article. Face it, you got a lemon. An exhange with a new machine at the Apple store would have been the right thing to do. The data could have been migrated from that pooched machine without booting it - just launching the computer as a firewire drive.
There were lots of options - all fairly painless to execute.. but the money-in-hand overpowered reason
Macs AREN’T foolproof. The hype that “they always just work” is just that - hype.
My iBook had a hardware problem - the ‘p’ key suddenly stopped working within eight months’ usage. Kept clean and moisture-free, no abuse, never been dropped, etc. and I’d never dislodged the keyboard.
Well, took it to the shop and they kept it for 2 weeks and returned it with a replaced keyboard. Service was fairly painless on the whole, but the point is, this was a brand new laptop, and the keyboard has no business just failing within a few months of ownership. I’ve owned tons of computers, including an old Apple II back in the day, and *none* of them ever suffered a hardware failure.
There’s nothing inherently foolproof about Apple hardware - Cupertino outsources its hardware manufacture to various contractors, most notably the Chinese. It’s not like Jobs himself hand-crafts each of these machines, they’re just nice looking systems cobbled together with parts from the lowest tendering manufacturer. So they’re just as prone to fail as any PC, maybe even more prone to fail because the big name PC makers have enough clout to demand certain standards of their contractors.
Sean had a far more serious problem, and he posted about it in a very restrained and nonconfrontational manner. And while most of the responses have been measured and civil, there are some absolutely rabid responses from what I can only assume are psychotic Mac zealots. These are the Mac users I can’t stand. The ones that drive people away from the brand. I have no idea why they treat every little criticism of their favorite brand as a slight against their honor, but they really need to grow up and get back in touch with reality.
It’s just a computer, people. A tool. An appliance. Not your own personal jihad.
This statement “I’ve owned tons of computers, including an old Apple II back in the day, and *none* of them ever suffered a hardware failure.”
should read :
“I’ve owned tons of computers, including an old Apple II back in the day, and *none* of them ever suffered a hardware *keyboard* failure.”
I hate to have to add to such a long and insane forum but if I ran into the same situation as Sean did with a new Mac, I would have done the same thing and returned it. I’m not one to fiddle with computers and I was never much of a computer guy until it became an absolute necessity in my line of work. I chose a Mac and it’s worked out for me. This whole allegiance thing to Macs or PCs is absolute bullshit. Yes, I’ve been ragged on plenty by family and friends over the years about being a “Mac guy” but none of it has ever been as brutal as the shit that some people have been spewing at Sean about this post.
I hate PCs and Macs. I wish someone would market a computer that could diagnose its own problem and offer solutions. I guess it’s too much to ask right now for a computer to fix itself.
Yeah, I’m a technophobe who’s into technology. It’s a nightmare.
And I’m probably posting to a thread that’s already dead.
it was so shit. never give up ya day job.
love ya byby
As a person who uses Macs at school (and has since I was in grade school), and as a PC user/builder at home, I can safely say that I’ve had enough experince with both to have aa proper opinion.
The bottom line: Macs seem to be designed with quality in mind, but with quality, there can be limitation. For instance, you might fork out $2,000 (US) for a new Mac and its ready to go, software installed. But there’s a catch: you’re stuck with a machine that is almost impossible to upgrade without sending it to Apple, and you have a machine that appears to be designed to fit smoothly up someone’s rectum. I don’t want to buy based on design or the catch of “not having to worry about upgrades”.
Being that Apple finally switched from the IBM chipset to the Pentium, I’ll assume that you can still buy the Mac OS and put it onto your own PC. Why not? If you like the Mac OS so much, why not avoid spending thousands on a machine that looks like it was designed by metrosexual apes, and go with a hardware platform that you can customize and upgrade to your hearts desire? It seems as though the Mac users posting here are perfectly happy with forking out tons of money on a brand new computer system instead of a simple upgrade, and it also seems that they’re content with letting the company they bought it from handle their problems. But for people like me and you, we sacrifice pride and independence when we let someone else fix our problems. That is something that we just can’t do!
By the way, I typed this on a Mac G4 after finding this article by typing “garageband sucks” into google. Garageband, when compared to FREE software like Audacity, truly sucks.
Yeah, Mac users are incredibly close-minded, mean-spirited, and just plain rude as evidenced by the above commnets. They swoon over design but will never truly understand hardware. Give it back: baffle them with facts and then flip ‘em the bird and tell ‘em to fuck off, they crawl back into their holes quietly.